“Antipode”: An Interview with Doğa Sultan on Her Zine-Book Archiving SWANA Punks
If you’ve ever walked the streets of İstanbul, you’ve likely seen Doğa Sultan’s graffiti, tags, and stickers plastered all around. If you’ve been to the beloved venue Karga, you’ve probably met her while she was working non-stop on whatever collective project she was taking on at the time. Maybe you’ve even caught her in the DJ booth, blasting some riot grrrl tunes… Even though she has been active in many different fields like street art, textile, and garment design, Doğa is an artist who wears her punk roots and attitude like a badge of honor in everything that she does.
We met at a DIY pop-up event she had organized with lots of underground artists and, when we weren’t distracted by all the cool shit going on around us, and talked about her most ambitious project to date, “Antipode”, the first volume of an upcoming zine-book series that aims to document the punk scene and DIY culture of North Africa and Southwest Asia. As you can imagine, documenting a scene that is so criminally underrepresented is no easy task.
This interview was conducted in Turkish and translated to English by the author.
MG: Hey Doğa! First of all, I want to say that I’m extremely happy that we are finally able to sit down and talk about this amazing project. As you know, I’ve been following the entire process with utmost excitement ever since I first heard about it. But for those who haven’t heard of “Antipode” yet, how would you describe it?
Doğa: Hey MG! Thank you! First of all, I like to call “Antipode”a zine-book, as it sits somewhere between a book and a fanzine. Everything is completely DIY and it doesn’t go through any boring copyright procedures, so it’s more aligned with the spirit of zine culture than the sterile formatting of publishing houses. Anyway, even though I thought of making “Antipode” a standalone zine-book at first, it made more sense to make it into a series the more I worked on it. This upcoming issue, which will be the first of many, is about the underground punk scene, DIY culture, and the diasporas of North Africa and Southwest Asia (SWANA). It’s not just about the bands though. It includes collectives, fanzines, creative networks and all the things that feed the culture. And it doesn’t end with the book either: there is a launch tour and a compilation album that accompany it.
MG: What inspired you to take on this huge project? How did it all start?
Doğa: My background is in textile and garment design. That’s what I study. So I’m always doing research on the more visual aspects of different cultures. While I was browsing a second-hand bookstore, I came across some really cool engravings depicting traditional clothes from North Africa and Southwest Asia and I had this idea to design a collection based on those. I’ve always loved archiving my photographs, writings and drawings in little booklets. So I thought, why not make a fanzine out of those designs?
MG: But it didn’t end there, did it?
Doğa: Not at all! Then I decided to lean more into the subtext of it, and I reached out to some bands to hear their insights. I ended up talking with more than 20 bands, and the amount of positive feedback I got inspired me to turn it into something more than a collection of garment designs. What began as a visual interest turned into a political documentation of the underground music and culture of North Africa and Southwest Asia.
MG: That’s really cool! Are there any specific reasons why you decided to focus on these regions, other than the engravings you found? Like, what drew you to document these specific punk scenes?
Doğa: It really bothers me that the music scenes of SWANA are either overshadowed or overexoticized by their Western counterparts. Even though folks in those scenes make amazing music, it always ends up being a secondary talking point to whatever made-up or overgeneralized ideas of their identities the Western world has. For example, some people are even unaware of the difference between their languages and culture. I find it really tragicomical. I mean, you should be able to consider a band’s music with the background and context that goes into it, but not solely focus on those and make it up to be a gimmick, right? This is exactly why I took on this project: to document the scenes as they are, relaying the words and products of its inhabitants, focusing on their voices and real life experiences. Whether from SWANA or beyond.
MG: “Beyond?”
Doğa: I always try to include the word “beyond” when I’m describing the project. It’s because the zine-book isn’t just about people who live in their home countries in SWANA. A significant number of participants have emigrated or had to flee from their home countries. And even though these experiences are seemingly different, there are lots of parallels and they should be considered as well. And another reason is I’m looking forward to turning it into a zine-book series and the idea to include bands that kind of foreshadow the upcoming issues really excites me. For example, there are two bands from Indonesia in the first issue. Maybe the next issue will focus on Southeast Asia, who knows?
MG: That’d be so cool! I have a lot of questions about that too but let’s not get too ahead of ourselves. Can you give us a little sneak-peek of the bands that we’ll encounter in the first issue?
Doğa: Why don’t I give you an alphabetical list of all the bands instead of just a sneak-peek? *clears throat* Al-Thawra, Ameretat, Dead Bhuttos, Demokhratia, Detox, Haram, Inqirad, Khassarat, Khiis, Maran, Mazandaran, Multinational Corporations, Nø Man, Pure Terror, Ragum, Shafrah, Snake Eater, Sucka, Ta2reeban, Tajnid, Taqbir, The Kominas, TØF, Uzu, Wafaq, Zanjeer, ZWM. There were also a lot of bands that weren’t available or I couldn’t reach out to. I’m really hoping to have them for future issues. Either way, they’ll definitely get a shout-out in the first volume. But it doesn’t end with the bands. There are also collectives like Dajjeh from Lebanon, and labels such as A World Divided, TAM89 Records, Plastic Wound Records, Darbouka Records. Not to forget the news outlet we all know and love, UniteAsia, along with Punks Against Apartheid. The extremely talented artists that kindly provided their visual artworks are Zohra Mrad, Ivan Kurniawan, and Ghas Attack. Oh, and Johnny Hummus will teach you about the secrets of a great hummus as well!
MG: Oh wow! That’s not a book anymore. It’s a whole library! Good to know we’ll get some recipes from the Hummus God himself. But to get back to the subject, you’ve also mentioned a compilation album and my pupils immediately dilated. Can you tell us more about it?
Doğa: Apart from a couple bands who sadly couldn’t make it because of the time constraints, all the bands in the zine-book will appear in the compilation as well! A World Divided is going to release the cassettes with their own zine and other surprise goods. I’m extremely grateful for their hard work! The artwork on the compilation was designed by the amazing Rajjha666m a.k.a. Ivan Kurniawan.
MG: Can’t wait to get my hands on that tape! What about the concert series? You have recently announced the kick-off show in İstanbul and honestly, it’s kind of my dream line-up.
Doğa: I guess it was a dream line-up for a lot of people! Hahaha. I get a lot of messages from people around the world, saying they’ll travel all the way here for the launch show, which is extremely exciting! Even though we’d definitely go beyond the capacity of the venue, Karga has always been our home and this project wouldn’t be complete without a show there. It began as a modest show with just one headlining band, then turned into a two-day festival with seven bands, and now it’s a whole EU tour with numerous bands from the zine-book. For each leg, there are supporting bands from their respective local scenes as well. What made it possible was the incredible effort and support of the local collectives and punks. Honestly, it’s my first time organizing such a big series of events. I mean, look at the tour flyer! It’s really thrilling. I hope I won’t fuck it up!
MG: Fingers crossed! I think both the compilation album and concerts add a lot of dimension to what you are trying to document and immortalize.
Doğa: Exactly! You know, you can’t just read about a band and claim that you know them. You gotta actually listen to them. And what better way to do that than to see them live?
MG: Agreed! As far as I know, you are handling everything by yourself. I can’t imagine it being easy.
Doğa: It definitely isn’t! But I’m not completely alone. The graphic design of the zine-book was made by my lovely friend Can Rogge, to whom I send all my love. Then of course, A World Divided helped a bunch. And lots of people and collectives helped book the tour. But yes, when it comes to the concept, communication, research, curation and the financial aspect, I handle all those by myself. But I’m not complaining! Even though I’ve been working on it day and night, I really enjoy every second I spend on this project. Well, maybe not the financial side of it. My wallet takes a huge hit as the project gets bigger and bigger.
MG: Wait, so how are you funding all this? Are there sponsors involved or is it all independent?
Doğa: “Antipode” is completely independent, and it’s going to stay that way. No sponsors whatsoever. It kind of funds itself…or at least I hope it will. I’ve been barely getting by as a university student in İstanbul doing design work and selling prints. To fund a majority of “Antipode”, I’ve done collab t-shirts with Taqbir, Zanjeer, and Shafrah (this one is still for sale here). It really brings tears to my eyes that the bands really embraced this project and did all they could to help out. I’m still short on money for a bunch of things, though. For example, I’m still looking for the funds to print the book, and there are a couple of band members I couldn’t buy flights for. So, another thing I’m doing is organizing DIY pop-up events for artists to sell their work, like the one we’re at right now! I mean, I’ve been doing that for a while, but now all the money I’m making from my stand goes straight to the project.
Oh, a big shout-out to Oust, by the way! We helped them organize a show in İzmir last month and after hearing about “Antipode”, they kindly donated their whole fee to the project. This is the kind of solidarity that gets me going!
MG: Hell yeah! And apart from financial difficulties, have you faced any other problems? Any harsh criticism, maybe?
Doğa: The biggest criticism I get is that I haven’t included every band from every country in the region. I see where they’re coming from, but I’d like to remind them that this is just the first zine-book in a series. Some bands weren’t available, and I’m sure I missed some because it’s not possible for me to have heard of and documented every single band by myself. I wish I could travel to all these places and observe the culture up close, but obviously that’s impossible. So, I had to settle for researching and contacting bands online. Maybe that’s the reason it isn’t as comprehensive as some people would like. But sadly, this is the best I can do for the time being.
MG: I totally get that. It must have been frustrating. How would you say this project personally affected you? Connecting with so many people must have given a whole other perspective.
Doğa: Oh, it was truly an emotional experience. I made a bunch of really good friends that taught me a lot, and I’m super grateful to all of them. It’s honestly been a really motivating and eye-opening journey. I also ended up learning about my roots in the process!
MG: How so?
Doğa: Just today, while I was talking to Hassan from the band Zanjeer, we got down a deep rabbithole which led to long conversations with my grandparents and lots of research. Long story short, I found out that half my ancestors were from an Arab background and the other half was from Pakistan. So, “Antipode” ended up helping me connect with my roots!
MG: That’s crazy! So, the real “Antipode” was the friends we made along the way, huh? … Oh, by the way, what the hell does “antipode” mean anyway? Is there a significance to the name?
Doğa: I had been thinking long and hard about what to call the project when I came across this geographical term “antipode.” It’s used for any two locations on Earth that are diametrical opposites of each other. It doesn’t mean the opposite of a specific location, though. Opposite in accordance to what? Antipodean to whom? No way to know for sure…that’s why it’s stylized in quotes. Maybe the bands from around the world are each other’s antipodes, maybe the diasporas in the focus of each zine-book are…who knows?
Funny story! Luk from Tam89 Records sent me a message right after we settled on the name and announced the project with the logo Ghas made. He said he had released a zine by the name of “Antipodes Souterrains” around ‘87. The name, logo, font, quotations, layout… It was extremely similar to “Antipode” in every way! First, I tried to explain that I was born in 2002 and I had no clue it existed. But then he said it’d be impossible to find it online or anywhere else even if I wanted to steal it. We both thought it was an unbelievable coincidence! I was delighted to learn that it was Luk who made it too, because he is someone that I’ve been a big fan of for a long, long time. It’s still crazy, though! I think it’d be fair to call it a zine-carnation, hahah.
MG: What a twist of fate! Back to the subject, will there be a specific lens we’ll see the book through? Is it purely objective or do you take a stance, include your own thoughts, interfere with the stories etc.?
Doğa: As I’ve mentioned before, it’s a book where I try to relay the words of the actual subjects–they tell their stories in their own way, as they please. I’m only the messenger. I’ve conducted very detailed interviews and compiled their anecdotes into a cohesive text, taking their feedback every step of the way. But the anti-colonial worldview I share with the participants probably seeps into the narrative a bit.
MG: As it should! And what about the flow of the zine-book? While we flip through the pages, are we going to read about the scene in a chronological order?
Doğa: There is no real chronological order sadly. It’s not formatted like a conventional book either. But even though it’s not chronological, the stories tie into each other very smoothly. It was written in the way that made the most sense to me personally. I don’t claim to be an incredibly skilled writer, but I’m sure I’ll improve with future issues.
MG: It’s the first book you’ve written, right?
Doğa: Kind of! I started making zines around the age of twelve, inspired by the ones I’d seen online. It was a riot grrrl zine, of course. That’s my only prior connection to writing. “Antipode” is my first time taking on something this serious and extensive. I’m still learning as I go. It is by far the most demanding thing I’ve ever done on both a material and spiritual level.
MG: Yeah, I bet! I struggle with writing album reviews and they’re each only a paragraph long. (Hi Rachel! Hi Erika! Sorry I’m late again! I promise I’ll send those reviews ASAP!)
Doğa: Hahah. Maybe it’s time you get back to those reviews!
MG: I better! Before I go, is there any way people can contact you?
Doğa: You can follow the updates at https://www.instagram.com/dogasulthan or e-mail me at dogacreator@gmail.com if you want to share anything that might be helpful for the project. Keep in mind that this upcoming issue is the first of many and with your support, it’ll get better and better! And if you can, make sure to stop by at one of the shows and say hi!
MG: Thank you so much for this lovely chat, Doğa. I can’t wait to get my hands on the zine-book and, of course, that compilation tape! Any last words?
Doğa: Stop the genocide! End the occupation! Free Palestine!
Then I gave Doğa a big hug, stole a couple of pins she was selling, and left without a trace…
